By: james smith underoath; Comments: 0 . In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. If 50 degrees across the cond. He started writing automotive articles to share his garage experience with car enthusiasts and armature mechanics. He used thermostatic expansion valve and Capillary tube for analysis with R12. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. James10952001. Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. The ozone depletion potential of a chemical is a factor that shows the level of degradation itll cause to the ozone layer that surrounds and secures the earth from harmful radiation. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. Very interesting! Vent temperatures slowly go down to around 50F with hi speed driving. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . Thread starter goldNSX; Start date 1 August 2009; Tagged . It will work and there will be very little, in any difference in performance.As Chick stated, the difference is only the gas used in the sensor tube. Edited: Tue July 17, 2007 at 3:25 AM by bohica2xo, I believe there is only one switch - the refrigerant switch. Hence, the effect of R12 on global warming is up to 10,000 times higher than carbon dioxide. Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. compressor, condenser, evaporator and expansion valve are specifically designed for use with R134a. Different correction factors are applied to other refrigerants.
AC R12 to R134A Conversion | MR2 Owners Club Forum When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. The car never overheats, if that has any import. How dumb!I will jumper the aux fan and redo the test. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. Replacement expansion valve for R134a or R12 A/C refrigerants, with O-ring connections. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. Bookmarks: Digg; del . Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. The difference really shows up on the high side. asia pacific stevie awards 2021. gin, amaretto cocktail. However, you can convert R12 to R134a by yourself, save money and keep all the tools purchased. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! What is a good differential? Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. Osuagwu Solomon is a certified mechanic with over a decade of experience in the mechanic garage, and he has over five years of experience in the writing industry. Is it exponential, squared?
difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve 4) Repeat step 2, making sure it will fit.
Amazon.com: 134a Valve The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store.
A final difference is that most (though not all) R-1234yf cars will have a Suction Line Heat Exchanger. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. With the knowledge of the differences, youll be able to draw a comparison between R12 vs R134a efficiency. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. Remember, being aluminum, they lower the temps better, and do not pass off as much heat to the radiator, which then makes it's job easier and lowers underhood temps (besides lowering vent temps inside the car). If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in.
We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. R404a for freezing of product. The experimental values of C.O.P.H obtained with the R134a/ester charge were 20.2% Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. R134a and water have the same abilities to change the state but R134a can do this more rapidly and at a much lower temperature than water. Quick View. So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc.
R12 or R134a - 928 Owners Club Forum For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. My turn to LOL - greasiesel!
Maybe a jerky locker.I cleaned the condensor with the off the shelf ac cleaner stuff from Home Depot that I used on my home evaporator. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. Poc temps desprs van decidir unir els dos webs sota el nom de Xarxa Catal, el conjunt de pgines que oferirien de franc sries doblades i/o subtitulades en catal. VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve why is miles raney not on homestead rescue June 21, 2022. manila mayor candidates 2022 The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. When I compare parts, 93 uses one part number and 94 has a different part number. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. look at the difference! Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? I put one in my old daily driver '79 Chevy tank (r-12), and it really made a difference. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. A York oil capacity is listed as "6.5 to 9.6 ounces". Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. Its cylinders are colored white. July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. Kommentare . Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. The reason is that the vehicles, for instance, manufactured currently configure the engine for R1234yf refrigerant, making no provision for replacement. AFAIK, there is no clutch on the engine fan on the 240D.
What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. To bless the system the technician should attach a R134a sticker somewhere in the engine compartment to note the car is using R134a. Automotive Replacement Expansion Valves & Parts; Industrial & Scientific; Customer Reviews. Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. R12 is simply too expensive for a 25+ year old A/C system. Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues. R1234yf is more environmentally friendly and has a global warming potential of 4. So that indicates it is cooling well there doesn't it? The condenser water inlet temperature and flow rate are controlled with the use of a . difference between r12 and r134a expansion valvewarning signs for a deteriorating patient with covid 19 infection 2022.07.03 18:36 18:36 ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. Also the new quick connect fittings for the high & low side. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . I'm just trying to help you avoid headaches in the long run. First, differences in physical properties: 1, insoluble R12 compressor oil is used (to reduce the lubricant) 2, dissolved sealing materials are used (resulting in refrigerant leakage) 3, easy to damp (so easy to internal . Can I order a valve based on the original eaton number? That would be the "black death" syndrome. 2001-2023 Griffiths Technical Inc. All Rights Reserved. R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. Look at where the lines will end up. . There is more to check.The evaporator must be clean as well as the condensor - was this a smoker's car?You should check the water control valve for the heater core. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? gital control scheme. Also, R134a cylinders are light-blue in color. Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. This is not to say that one of these small retro-fit kits cant be used, however to be used wisely. Yes, I don't trust the heater valve either.
difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve R12 is used in several applications like low temperature, medium temperature, and high-temperature applications. Any advice appreciated. Thanks so much Bohica - you've save me many more hours of fruitless speculation. This is an electronic tool that sucks in air through a tube and across a sensor. You are indeed 20% out of the OEM spec for cooling. That's a lot isn't it? Are r12 and r134 fittings different? Unfortunately, the R12 refrigerant doesnt always blow cold air. Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job.
Effects of alternative refrigerants on the ejector dimensions for . At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. El juny de 2017, el mateix grup va decidir crear un web deDoctor Who amb el mateix objectiu. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. Your decision could be made based on economics, environmental concerns, or both. They have no moving parts. Crap! These differences in the valve size can be attributed to the correlation of the cooling capacity with the enthalpy difference and the mass flow, which in . (On firewall where A/C lines go into cab.) R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. In this study, without the need for major modifications to the bus air conditioner, the variation of the ejector dimensions according to different parameters has been investigated in the case of using the R1234yf, R1234ze(E), or R600a refrigerants, which may be a substitute for R134a as a refrigerant due to . Trinary Pressure Switch $ 39.99. But R22 is almost equally damaging. I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines.
Dimensioning of refrigeration components - part 2 - Danfoss For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. R1234yf. The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. Are you sure you have an R4? ambulance tailgate conversion That switch should close @ 52c. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Should I do the test again with the the aux fan jumpered? The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Carefully study the chart and compare the following: To a large extent, the choice is up to you.
Can I Use Automotive r134a in a Refrigerator | An Expert Guide At this time you can still find R12, but, because it is no longer produced, availability is limited to current inventories and the price per pound is greater than R134a. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. The best replacement for R134a is R1234yf, while R12 refrigerant replacement was R134a. If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. How an A/C Expansion Valve Works. Accessories Pumps, Cooling Towers, Evap Condensers, etc, Components Valves, Motors, Condensers, Evaporators, etc, Duct Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Piping Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Control System Design, Installation & Practice, Pro's Forum: National Electrical Code (NEC), Pro's Forum: Calculations & Electrical Theory, Pro's Forum: Electrical Business & Marketing. Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the amount of R134a used. This is 11F off the FSM performance graph - vent should be around 50F. It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. A good T/C, clamped to the line & insulated gives a repeatable measurement of the tube. The problem with these so called drop in replacements is that to properly handle them you may need dedicated equipment to identify the gas and evacuate it for proper disposal. The oil used in R12 and R134a are different and not compatible. 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. R-12 to R-134a Conversion. evarporator, expansion valve plus flushing out the full system and replacing all the o rings. I remember I had the wrong seals and it leaked some oil, so I put some more in.Bohica - I tested the pressures. If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Hope this helps. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. Recomanem consultar les pgines web de Xarxa Catal per veure tota la nostra oferta. BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior.
PDF Experimental analysis of Thermostatic expansion valve, Constant Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was R134a. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. A/C systems designed to use R-12 will cool best when charged with R-12 refrigerant. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. We ALWAYS want to know the pressure readings! This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. 4.R404A R134a increased mass transfer resistance to reduce the transmission chamber heat coefficient, while R507 heat transfer coefficient is higher than R404A. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS.